Proof that testosterone prevents prostate cancer

[Ed Friedman]

There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.

A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
hypogonadal men not receiving testosterone had the following results:

1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.

2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.

3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).

I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.

Ed Friedman

[Ed Friedman]

I neglected to include the web site for those who want to read the
abstract. See:

http://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2018.36.6_suppl.167

Ed Friedman

Post by Ed Friedman
There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.
A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.
3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).
I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.
Ed Friedman

[I.P. Freely]

Even those who don't want the technical details may learn something
useful from the entire paper, found at

https://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(14)03885-3/fulltext

Many abstracts state that we can't access full texts without signing up,
which ranges from free to quite expensive. We can often bypass that by
Googling the paper's title. If that takes to an NIH link, it's usually
free because our U.S. federal taxes paid for it.

I.P.

Post by Ed Friedman
I neglected to include the web site for those who want to read the
http://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2018.36.6_suppl.167

[Ed Friedman]

On 06/15/2018 08:53 PM, I.P. Freely wrote:
I.P.

This is actually a different paper, but with results that agree with the
paper that I cited.

Ed Friedman

Post by I.P. Freely
Even those who don't want the technical details may learn something
useful from the entire paper, found at
https://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(14)03885-3/fulltext
Many abstracts state that we can't access full texts without signing up,
which ranges from free to quite expensive. We can often bypass that by
Googling the paper's title. If that takes to an NIH link, it's usually
free because our U.S. federal taxes paid for it.
 I.P.

Post by Ed Friedman
I neglected to include the web site for those who want to read the
http://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2018.36.6_suppl.167

[jloomis]

Is this for an existing diagnosis, or a preventative?
John

"Ed Friedman" wrote in message news:pe6s1n$s5q$***@dont-email.me...

There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.

A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
hypogonadal men not receiving testosterone had the following results:

1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.

2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.

3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).

I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.

Ed Friedman

[Ed Friedman]

John,

It is impossible for prostate cancer to develop from the first cell to
having enough cells to be detected within 12 years. Therefore, the
treated men should have had an equal number of occult prostate cancer
tumors in them as the untreated men. In fact, all of the treated men had
their cancer diagnosed within the first 18 months of treatment, which is
indicative that their tumors were close to being diagnosed, or were
large enough to be diagnosed, but slipped through the cracks, before
treatment was started.

So it definitely is a preventative, and should help fight existing
tumors unless they have mutated androgen receptors that allow the cancer
to thrive. It should be pointed out that all of the men in this study
were hypogonadal initially (T <= 350 ng/dL.).

These results are in the line with what Dr. Morgentaler found, in which
untreated hypogonadal men with prostate cancer experienced over a one
third drop in their PSA over two years when given testosterone. See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334649

Ed Friedman

Post by jloomis
Is this for an existing diagnosis, or a preventative?
John
There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.
A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.
3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).
I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.
Ed Friedman

[unknown]

Post by Ed Friedman
John,
It is impossible for prostate cancer to develop from the first cell to
having enough cells to be detected within 12 years. Therefore, the
treated men should have had an equal number of occult prostate cancer
tumors in them as the untreated men. In fact, all of the treated men had
their cancer diagnosed within the first 18 months of treatment, which is
indicative that their tumors were close to being diagnosed, or were
large enough to be diagnosed, but slipped through the cracks, before
treatment was started.
So it definitely is a preventative, and should help fight existing
tumors unless they have mutated androgen receptors that allow the cancer
to thrive. It should be pointed out that all of the men in this study
were hypogonadal initially (T <= 350 ng/dL.).
These results are in the line with what Dr. Morgentaler found, in which
untreated hypogonadal men with prostate cancer experienced over a one
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334649
Ed Friedman

Post by jloomis
Is this for an existing diagnosis, or a preventative?
John
There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.
A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.
3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).
I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.
Ed Friedman

Very good information Ed, thank you. And based on the work you've done
and shared here along with other info you have provided over the
years, not surprising.

So, how does this relate to the average guy looking to make use of
this? I suspect most urologists will not be aware or will take time to
come up to speed on this. Some might even refuse to accept it.
--
PSA @ 45 yrs. = 4.7 02/06/2007
Biopsy 03/16/2007 G7(3+4),T1c
RLRP 06/12/2007 G7(3+4),T2cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA 07/16/2007 = <0.1
PSA 09/12/2007 = <0.1
PSA 12/18/2007 = <0.1
PSA 03/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 12/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2009 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2010 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2011 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2012 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2013 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2014 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2015 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2016 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2017 = <0.1

[Ed Friedman]

Paul,

It means that unless they are undergoing ADT, men should always make
sure that their total serum testosterone level is above 350 ng/dL (and
probably above 500 ng/dL, since that is what happened to the treated men
in these experiments). This should be especially applicable to men
opting for active surveillance.

For those mistakenly believing that testosterone increases the risk of
heart attacks and strokes, the exact opposite is true. See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5555449/

In talking about the Morgentaler article, I forgot to mention that 54%
of the treated men had no detectable cancer cells on followup biopsies.

Ed

Post by unknown

Post by Ed Friedman
John,
It is impossible for prostate cancer to develop from the first cell to
having enough cells to be detected within 12 years. Therefore, the
treated men should have had an equal number of occult prostate cancer
tumors in them as the untreated men. In fact, all of the treated men had
their cancer diagnosed within the first 18 months of treatment, which is
indicative that their tumors were close to being diagnosed, or were
large enough to be diagnosed, but slipped through the cracks, before
treatment was started.
So it definitely is a preventative, and should help fight existing
tumors unless they have mutated androgen receptors that allow the cancer
to thrive. It should be pointed out that all of the men in this study
were hypogonadal initially (T <= 350 ng/dL.).
These results are in the line with what Dr. Morgentaler found, in which
untreated hypogonadal men with prostate cancer experienced over a one
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334649
Ed Friedman

Post by jloomis
Is this for an existing diagnosis, or a preventative?
John
There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.
A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.
3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).
I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.
Ed Friedman

Very good information Ed, thank you. And based on the work you've done
and shared here along with other info you have provided over the
years, not surprising.
So, how does this relate to the average guy looking to make use of
this? I suspect most urologists will not be aware or will take time to
come up to speed on this. Some might even refuse to accept it.

[Les]

The article below paints a very nice picture for T injections. To the point of drop everything boys and girls (ok, maybe not girls) and get your T injection NOW!

I'm sure the previous research was carefully done by well meaning doctors/researchers. Perhaps I missed it, but has there been discussion on how the previous research reached their conclusions and why the new(er) research is better?

I'm at year nine following RP surgery and have undetectable PSA. The pathology report showed a microfocal positive margin which the doctor said could still mean that the cautery in fact destroyed cells at that margin.

One conclusion of the article was that T is helpful for those who are doing the watchful waiting approach. I assume I am still in that group and further assume that T will help suppress any PCa cells thay may have escaped the knife. Am I right?

- les

Post by Ed Friedman
Paul,
For those mistakenly believing that testosterone increases the risk of
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5555449/
In talking about the Morgentaler article, I forgot to mention that 54%
of the treated men had no detectable cancer cells on followup biopsies.
Ed

[Ed Friedman]

Les,

There is no question that T prevents prostate cancer(PCa) and is
essential for men's health. However, keep in mind that cancer produces
mutations and any mutation that changes PCa so that it thrives in the
presence of T instead of being vulnerable to it gives a huge selective
growth advantage to those cancer cells. What this means is that the more
advanced your PCa, the more likely that T might be harmful instead of
helpful.

All that being said, a recent article pointed out "several recent
studies support the safe use of testosterone therapy in men with a
history of prostate cancer treated using radical prostatectomy." See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5026903/
This is something that you should discuss with your doctor.

Ed Friedman

Post by Les
The article below paints a very nice picture for T injections. To the point of drop everything boys and girls (ok, maybe not girls) and get your T injection NOW!
I'm sure the previous research was carefully done by well meaning doctors/researchers. Perhaps I missed it, but has there been discussion on how the previous research reached their conclusions and why the new(er) research is better?
I'm at year nine following RP surgery and have undetectable PSA. The pathology report showed a microfocal positive margin which the doctor said could still mean that the cautery in fact destroyed cells at that margin.
One conclusion of the article was that T is helpful for those who are doing the watchful waiting approach. I assume I am still in that group and further assume that T will help suppress any PCa cells thay may have escaped the knife. Am I right?
- les

Post by Ed Friedman
Paul,
For those mistakenly believing that testosterone increases the risk of
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5555449/
In talking about the Morgentaler article, I forgot to mention that 54%
of the treated men had no detectable cancer cells on followup biopsies.
Ed

[I.P. Freely]

Post by Les
One conclusion of the article was that T is helpful for those who are doing the watchful waiting approach. I assume I am still in that group and further assume that T will help suppress any PCa cells thay may have escaped the knife. Am I right?

Dr. Leibowitz is firmly convinced that "It depends". I.e., it depends on
how much T we're talking about. Normal levels, especially towards the
lower end of the normal scale, encourage prostate cancer's spread and
growth. He wants his patients as near zero as possible during ADT, and
over 1,500 (2-4 times normal) when on TRT. Anything in between is
dangerous to relapsed PC patients.

(For example, try as they might, they've had no success getting mine
above the normal range, but that's a personal problem with glaring
results: a PSA heading for the moon at Warp 9.)

I.P.

[unknown]

Post by Ed Friedman
Paul,
It means that unless they are undergoing ADT, men should always make
sure that their total serum testosterone level is above 350 ng/dL (and
probably above 500 ng/dL, since that is what happened to the treated men
in these experiments). This should be especially applicable to men
opting for active surveillance.
For those mistakenly believing that testosterone increases the risk of
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5555449/
In talking about the Morgentaler article, I forgot to mention that 54%
of the treated men had no detectable cancer cells on followup biopsies.
Ed

Thanks Ed, very insightful as always.
--
PSA @ 45 yrs. = 4.7 02/06/2007
Biopsy 03/16/2007 G7(3+4),T1c
RLRP 06/12/2007 G7(3+4),T2cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA 07/16/2007 = <0.1
PSA 09/12/2007 = <0.1
PSA 12/18/2007 = <0.1
PSA 03/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 12/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2009 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2010 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2011 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2012 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2013 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2014 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2015 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2016 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2017 = <0.1

[I.P. Freely]

Post by unknown
Very good information Ed, thank you.
I suspect most urologists will not be aware or will take time to
come up to speed on this. Some might even refuse to accept it.

Some? I would not be surprised if >99% of U.S. oncologists overtly scorn
the mere suggestion of treating PC with testosterone. Many models of
prostate cancer have been proposed, and probably none is more widely
accepted as gospel as the Gasoline Model, as I call the the almost
universal proclamation that adding T to prostate cancer is like pouring
gasoline on a fire.

It's like asking cardiologists about statins, saturated fat, and
cholesterol. They're brainwashed, and harm millions of people every year
with their outdated balderdash.

I.P.

[Alan Meyer]

Post by Ed Friedman
There is finally indisputable proof that testosterone prevents prostate
cancer.
A 12 year study with 412 hypogonadal men receiving testosterone and 380
1.) 11 men (2.3%) in the treated group and 34 men (8.9%) in the
untreated group ended up being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2.) Only 1 of these 11 treated men had a Gleason score above 6, whereas
all of these 34 untreated men had Gleason scores above 6.
3.) Tumor stage for these treated men was T2a in 7 (64%), T2b in 3
(27%), and T2c in 1 (9%). Tumor stage for these untreated men was T2c in
1 (3%), T3a in 3 (8.8%), T3b in 13 (38.2%), and T3c in 17 (50%).
I won't hold my breath waiting for medical schools to start teaching
these facts.
Ed Friedman

There is a fellow named Allen Edel who posts under the name "Tall_Allen"
on the Advanced Prostate Cancer online support group HealthUnlocked.com.
He says he is not a doctor but, in my opinion, he's outstandingly well
informed about PCa.

He maintains a blog on pcnrv.blogspot.com with many useful articles.
His article on testosterone replacement therapy struck me as very
enlightening. See:


https://pcnrv.blogspot.com/2016/09/testosterone-to-treat-prostate-cancer.html

It's about treatment, not prevention, so it is not directly pertinent to
this thread, but I think it will be of interest to readers. He has many
other excellent blog postings as well.

Alan

[Ed Friedman]

Alan,

While the Allen's article was interesting, there were several point of
misinformation that people should be aware of.

First, membrane androgen receptor never enters the cell. It acts by
generating fast g-protein action. ADT actually amplifies intracellular
androgen receptor, which acts by migrating from the cytoplasm to the
nucleus once binding occurs and then attaches to the appropriate
androgen response element on the DNA.

Second, while the theory was that using etoposide along with BAT would
improve the treatment, in practice it was found not to be the case. I
attended a seminar in which one of the researchers from Johns Hopkins
reported that one man died as a result of the etoposide and they have
since discontinued its use without any noticeable change in the efficacy
of the treatment.

Also, Dr. Leibowitz's methods differ from everyone else's because of his
use of 5AR inhibitors in conjunction with TRT. Besides preventing the
conversion of T to DHT, 5AR inhibitors also prevent the conversion of
progesterone to 5-alpha pregnanes, which in my opinion is its most
important effect. However, the combination of TRT with 5AR inhibitors
results in much more binding to the membrane androgen receptor than to
the intracellular androgen receptor which increases the rate of cell death.

The researchers working on BAT are ignoring the possible benefits of 5AR
inhibitors and are ignorant of the effect of estrogen receptors and the
potential benefits of using an aromatase inhibitor.

All of this is very complicated, but my recent article tries to make
sense of it all. You can read it for free at:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305122202_The_Relationship_Between_Testosterone_Estradiol_and_Prostate_Cancer

Post by Alan Meyer
There is a fellow named Allen Edel who posts under the name "Tall_Allen"
on the Advanced Prostate Cancer online support group HealthUnlocked.com.
 He says he is not a doctor but, in my opinion, he's outstandingly well
informed about PCa.
He maintains a blog on pcnrv.blogspot.com with many useful articles. His
article on testosterone replacement therapy struck me as very
https://pcnrv.blogspot.com/2016/09/testosterone-to-treat-prostate-cancer.html
It's about treatment, not prevention, so it is not directly pertinent to
this thread, but I think it will be of interest to readers.  He has many
other excellent blog postings as well.
   Alan

[I.P. Freely]

I'm not ignoring this thread; I'm just too swamped to contribute right
now. I've been on TRT for months now, with little success at getting my
T above the normal (dangerous for PC patients) range. We're measuring my
PSA and T and tweaking my T application protocol weekly in an attempt to
get my serum T into the desired range of > 1,500 to reverse my PSA
doubling time of two WEEKS (6 MONTHS is considered a medical emergency).

Why so swamped? Managing a dozen prescription drugs plus dozens of
integrative oncologist-prescribed supplements, fighting three health
care insurance providers (not counting the VA because it is criminally
and aggressively incompetent), juggling several pharmacies and drug
manufacturers, and coordinating four oncologists at four institutions in
three states consumes every waking moment and often cuts into my sleep
time dramatically. Unfortunately, that's what it takes to fight this
disease properly.

The ONLY other thing I have (i.e., TAKE) the time to do is windsurfing,
which is in peak season now. As the T shirt says, "Windsurfing is Life;
The Rest is Details". My wife does EVERYTHING else, up to and including
chauffeuring me around town when my drugs prevent safe driving. (On my
longer trips, I simply stop taking the problem drugs, as per the T shirt.)

Until I get back with more details, there's plenty to read about TRT as
a PC treatment at Dr. Leibowitz's website. Google Leibowitz's Three
Pronged Protocol to begin with, and review these posts from this forum:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.support.cancer.prostate/FmVQiarsWys
.

I.P.

[I.P. Freely]

Post by I.P. Freely
I'm not ignoring this thread; I'm just too swamped to contribute right
now.

Today was just one more frequent example of what I strongly feel is a
necessary evil in fighting recurring prostate cancer rather than blindly
trusting ANY oncologist to do it for us: Four doctor/procedural visits,
several new messages in my oncology portal, four calls from my primary
oncology clinic two states away, three phone calls from pharmacies, and
two more calls from confused insurers. On top of that, I still had to
tell my oncology nurse how to inject my Firmagon properly. I'm going to
MAKE time to eat lunch now so it's not called "supper" and so I can talk
to my primary oncologist for a few minutes (at $50 to $100 per minute
out of my pocket) when he calls at 4 PM.

Hey, things could be worse. I could just give up and let the VA get near
me.

I.P.

[Alan Meyer]

Post by I.P. Freely

Post by I.P. Freely
I'm not ignoring this thread; I'm just too swamped to contribute right
now.

Today was just one more frequent example of what I strongly feel is a
necessary evil in fighting recurring prostate cancer rather than blindly
trusting ANY oncologist to do it for us: Four doctor/procedural visits,
several new messages in my oncology portal, four calls from my primary
oncology clinic two states away, three phone calls from pharmacies, and
two more calls from confused insurers. On top of that, I still had to
tell my oncology nurse how to inject my Firmagon properly. I'm going to
MAKE time to eat lunch now so it's not called "supper" and so I can talk
to my primary oncologist for a few minutes (at $50 to $100 per minute
out of my pocket) when he calls at 4 PM.
Hey, things could be worse. I could just give up and let the VA get near
me.
I.P.

You're a helluva fighter I.P.

Best of luck to you.

Alan

[I.P. Freely]

Post by Alan Meyer
You're a helluva fighter I.P.
Best of luck to you.

I'm MOTIVATED as hell. This crap is interfering with my windsurfing.
I've refused to take some of the meds that most obviously impact or
threaten it. SURELY all 10-15 meds can't be that critical.

I.P.

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